2,684,669
Shout out to lenders John Meussner and Caroline Gerardo and George Souto and Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi and Rob Spinosa
Perhaps one of them can give you a definitive answer.
-
Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mort...
New Lenox, IL
-
Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mort...
New Lenox, IL
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Margaret Rome Baltimor...
Pikesville, MD
-
Pete Xavier
Pacific Palisades, CA
5,240,047
Call Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi , George Souto or @Joe Petrowski.
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
3,988,013
There should be a directive or exemption letter that you can find that will substantiate this. The underwriter will know what document is acceptable.
-
John Meussner
Fair Oaks, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Pete Xavier
Pacific Palisades, CA
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
472,114
Ask the loan originator to talk with the underwriter and clarify this. It may be that the underwriter is new and has not come across this before or it was a condition that automatically populated. Or, it may be that they want to make sure there isn't a business the borrower owns that is losing money.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Kathleen Daniels, Prob...
San Jose, CA
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
-
Nina Hollander, Broker
Charlotte, NC
-
Pete Xavier
Pacific Palisades, CA
1,078,201
You should be able to get around this. There are multiple ways to prove pension and social security income without tax returns. What you may have to show is evidence 1040s were not filed (which is easy enough to get from the IRS), but that would be worst case scenario.
Asset statements showing deposits, along with award letters would be sufficient evidence of the income. Good luck Allan Rolnick . If the lender can't get this cleared up (potentially maybe it's a lender overlay?) feel free to give me a call. We cover Washington State and do many VA loans.
Hopefully the current lender can get it together for you, though.
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
3,349,554
You have some great answers here. I'd be escalating the matter with the lender/underwriting team for clarification.
I'd make sure the buyer is working with an EXPERIENCED VA lender.
Bank statements showing the two deposits each month will prove income. Social Security and Pension both send end of year statements which will marry up well with the bank statements showing deposits.
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Anthony Acosta - ALLAT...
Atlanta, GA
519,324
Earnings statements from each source going back as far as he has them, along with any annual summaries provided may be the best he can do. I agree, the underwriter may have the answer or need to get creative. Best of luck.
-
John Juarez
Fremont, CA
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
249,799
Signed letter of explination by the borrower plus a copy of the IRS guidelines.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
4,272,934
Wow! That is interesting...
A little to close to comfort in Tacoma.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
544,014
I had the same exact problem last November. The lender didn't budge. The mortgage broker had to find a different lender/investor.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Lyn Sims
Schaumburg, IL
5,254,685
Let the lender know this - the underwriter should be able to make this requirement an exception for your buyer. Good luck, Allan!
-
Tony and Suzanne Marri...
Scottsdale, AZ
-
John Meussner
Fair Oaks, CA
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
5,583,328
good question for George Souto or Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mortgage Originator - FHA/VA/Conv/Jumbo/Portfolio/Refi
-
Gene Mundt, IL/WI Mort...
New Lenox, IL
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
1,506,163
Allan,
My thought is to have a discussion about the buyer's situation with the lender and have them take it back to underwritting. There may be a need to have the buyer put it in writing. If that doesn't get resolved, or they don't know, I'd find a lender that specializes in VA loans. I've seen specialists make a significant difference in the ability of a VA buyer to get a purchase accepted.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Margaret Rome Baltimor...
Pikesville, MD
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
613,494
Then he needs to provide proof of what he does get and from where... and that he does not need to file...
Eve
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
6,419,449
Provide the docs you have, if not good enough maybe you will need a different lender or to fill out the tax forms.
-
Bob Crane
Stevens Point, WI
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
2,784,726
Proof of income is established...the rest is self-evident. Lender needs a wake-up call or you need a new lender
-
John Meussner
Fair Oaks, CA
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
2,221,377
You would need to consult with a lender on this one Allan.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Anthony Acosta - ALLAT...
Atlanta, GA
4,582,434
Explain this to the lender and if the response you receive does not make sense, proceed accordingly.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Anthony Acosta - ALLAT...
Atlanta, GA
5,113,121
Check with some other lenders how they handle this. I can't believe there isn't an exception in a case like this.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
7,864,182
You may need to find another lender.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Anthony Acosta - ALLAT...
Atlanta, GA
716,032
Another lender or loan program may work.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
430,402
Find another lender maybe. I'd call a lender you know and trust to guide this client through the purchase gambit.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
-
Michael Jacobs
Pasadena, CA
420,003
If this lender says the Tax return is required: he needs to file. He can go ahead and efile 2015 2016 2017 today but it will take 2-3 weeks for the 4506T to perhaps see the reports. If this LENDER SPECIFIC requirement is not "waiveable" here is maybe why- I've seen taxes for same where they write off more expenses for their side gig than the income, or they claim losses carried forward... Did he turn in anything that shows a business name on the bank statements? IF you Google search his mailing ADDRESSES do any show a business?
Get out the SSI and VA 1099 and do an IRS FREE FILE NOW
link https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free/
MAKE COPIES for the lender they may have to check the 4506T a couple times.
IF "$25,000 annual total income for single, head of household, qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child or married individuals filing separately who did not live with their spouse at any time during the year;
$32,000 for married couples filing jointly; Then we would not require the filing
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
376,687
I agree with others that the lender should accept a copy of the award letter and banks statements showing monthly receipt. You could get a tax transcript showing taxes haven't been filed but that seems like overkill. You should also be able to search the IRS website and print something stating that, with the income that he receives, there is no requirement to file taxes. Print that and have the LO give it to the underwriter. Often, UWs just do the "canned" conditions but will adjust them when the LO or broker points out why they are not needed or available.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
636,327
In lieu of Federal Tax Returns, Lenders can source the income via an "Award Letter" (from US Treasury, etc.) to determine the amount & frequency of income, and whether or not the income is taxable. If your Lender does not wish to budge on their stance, we will be happy to take a look at it and guide you & your client accordingly.
-
Fred Griffin Florida R...
Tallahassee, FL
4,800,132
I believe they still file a tax return stating the above.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
1,847,051
Produce the IRS statute & the check stubs. That's the most you can do. Where the hell is the LO in all of this? Any good LO would know the answer to help you.
Might have to get a benefits total from the VA also.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
3,071,489
4,319,773
A catch 22, Allan Rolnick.
Ask the lender about the other options.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
5,061,034
I was going to suggest the mortgage professionals we have here to check in for ideas. Perhaps another lender who understands this scenario?
-
John Meussner
Fair Oaks, CA
1,553,599
New lender that gets it, like Jason E. Gordon
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
1,712,776
Have to find out wnat alternatives the lender has.
-
Debe Maxwell, CRS
Charlotte, NC
155,337
If it's not required, they should accept whatever form of documentation for his Pension and SSD. As others have said, make sure you are working with an experienced VA lender.
5,877,915
1,323,529
I see comments that mention the potential of taxable write-offs showing up in tax returns. But…He did not file so that is a moot point. If he does not have to file, why would he file to write off expenses when he is already not paying. IRS 4506-T will show no returns files. Income can be documented from other sources as mentioned by other commenters.
129,443
Thanks to everyone for their responses. It is greatly appreciated. I will let you know how it turns out.
4,961,547
1,291,481
John Meussner has nailed the answer to this inquiry, Allan Rolnick. I don’t think I can add a whole lot further, but IMO …
“Actual Underwriting Condition” could be semantics ... or the translation could be getting lost. Essentially, moving forward, I believe the Lender should make a request for “Transcripts” from the IRS stating, “No evidence of Return Filed” . Income should then be proven for Underwriting and Loan by other means (as John has stated).
There should be no need for Tax Returns to be filed by the Loan Applicant … or produced by that Applicant for their Lender . A Borrower cannot (or should not be asked to) produce what does not exist or required by their State. Facts, financial information gathered, the State in which this application is taking place all point to there being no need.
This is a very interesting scenario. I would be interested in hearing how the Applicant and Lender actually end-up handling this scenario ... and their success with their approach. Please follow-up with us in the future. We all can learn from your experience … thanks!
Thanks to all that gave a shout out to me ... it's greatly appreciated and valued!
Gene
902,038
5,772,587
4,901,858
4,434,177
1,241,879
3,986,308